[oraqle]

oraqle on 20040625 um 2215 Uhr #258

many people in my somewhat small and backward town believe that i am a goth simply because i wear black t-shirts and have an “i don’t give a shit” attitude about life and everything in it and i have always corrected them by saying that “i’m not goth..i’m all of the above.” but it’s got me wondering, what exactly is being goth? is it the color of your clothes and the music you listen to? i mean, is there some goth headquarters out there that decides that off grey is the NEW fad for goths vs. the almost black grey that was in style last year? (sarcasm alert!) if so, i haven’t got the memo..lol.
or does it have to do with attitude or something equally, yet somehow more profoundly, internal?
just a thought.

[maestro]

maestro on 20040626 um 0413 Uhr #2905

Urgh a topic which could go on for hours.

I wear a lot of black, have that same “take it or fuck off” attitude and so am considered goth by most folks outside of the goth community. But then I know I’m not seen as goth by other goths.

I’m not sure what it is that makes a goth, what you need ticked in the list before you can call yourself a goth, and not just “gothy”, but I’d not really care matey. Just do your thing and hang with the people you want to. Goth or not they’ll accept what you are, and all the while those outside will misunderstand and you may well get shit for the way you dress, act, etc..

Besides, goth themselves can’t really agree on goth, so what chance do the rest of us have.

PS Yes, I am goth as fcuk.

[maestro]

maestro on 20040626 um 0905 Uhr #2906

unfortunately there is noone that decides whats gothic and what is not

the term was coined when a producer had to come up with something describing the sound of Joy Divison ( as far as i remember) – so “gothic” in fact has no real meaning, it could be anything from david bowie to blue haired techno fetish manga girls

and as it has not real meaning, it means something different for each person: thats why some people find it fitting to wear pvc pants together with coffin-jewellery and a top hat while others wear something completely different – for me it’s mostly a joke, something morbid and funny – others see it as deep philosphical movement – remember, ´”gothic” doesnt mean anything, so it can be everything

your neighbours might have their own idea for what is goth – it might be luck or an accident but it fits on you, what doesnt mean you HAVE to be goth if you dont want to

( what stands clearly in contrast to some people wanting to be goth but never will be goth but that’s another topic)

[belos]

belos on 20040626 um 1457 Uhr #2907

Well…..I have beem GOTHIC (not goth) since 1973….even when I was a Policeman for about 7 years.

And still am.

If you want food for thought (or to throw up over), hit my site and on the top bar, hit the 2 gothic sections. No real thunderbolts of wisdom, but you never know?

But…it will never be the same thing….it will be a perpetual question mark….no matter how many folks you talk to.

What I DO think is more than disgusting (besides the general public prejudice) is the prejudice among those within the Dark “community”….we are more snubby to anyone who is not “as goth as me”, than most of the rest of the world.

[oraqle]

oraqle on 20040626 um 1905 Uhr #2908

ah, yes. i do have to agree with that..those who are considered truly “goth” do have a rather elitist point of view. but i can’t much complain..so do i at times. 😉 anyway, i wasn’t trying to find a way to conform or anything..it just struck me that i wanted to know. 🙂 peace to you all and thanks for your input.

[maestro]

maestro on 20040627 um 1541 Uhr #2909

when a producer

Ahh yes, the delightful Antony “Tony” Wilson. An embassidor, albeit a rather unpopular one, of my home city of Manchester. He was a driving force behind Manchester’s music scene of the 80’s/90’s and was one of the names aroudn the city’s (in)famous dance club, the Hacienda, the bastion and some say home, of the drug-rave culture. They gutted the place and turned it into modern “urban living” flats. I found it hilarous that these expensive city apartments for well-to-do inner-city career types were being advertised as owning a piece of the Hacienda history, one built on drugs, over-doses, really bad music and dancing and day-glo smilies. 😀

Should you be so interested in the antics of Mr Wilson, there was a recent film “24 hour party people” based around his life and the Manchester dance scene.

[maestro]

maestro on 20040629 um 1917 Uhr #2910

drugs, overdoses and day-glo smilies?

if one considers your environment that offers a completely new approach to analyze your postings

[maestro]

maestro on 20040630 um 1633 Uhr #2911

Oh hush. I’m sure Germany had it’s rave culture in it’s day too… am rather sure it is probably still going on too.

Never seen the point in Ecstasy … I can dance like a twat well enough on Vodka alone.

[maestro]

maestro on 20040630 um 1651 Uhr #2912

it’s still goin on but noone knows where – it vanished and those people only come out to celebrate the love parade once a year

you sometimes get the idea that all the ravers hide in goth clubs and wear black in between the parades, judging by the change of music there

[hippiepunk]

hippiepunk on 20040702 um 1430 Uhr #2913

@maestro wrote:

it’s still goin on but noone knows where – it vanished and those people only come out to celebrate the love parade once a year

you sometimes get the idea that all the ravers hide in goth clubs and wear black in between the parades, judging by the change of music there

I think i know what ur talking about, and yes, thats the way ravers are, hidden in goth clubs, and of course, because of the currents of changes, they had to wear black and listen to new music in every era. And unfortunately they only come out once a year in love festivals. THAT”S THE WAY I’M.
But time is changing, and so do us. Let’s wait 2 c what 2morrrow brings

[maestro]

maestro on 20040702 um 1941 Uhr #2914

prollie only more skirt wearing depresso fags

“goth” and “future” are two things i dont like to think of in combination

[oraqle]

oraqle on 20040706 um 1117 Uhr #2915

hey…not all skirt wearing depresso fags are bad…just the ones you feel like shooting in the head. 😉

[hippiepunk]

hippiepunk on 20040706 um 1337 Uhr #2916

Maestro, with all my respects, i agree with oraqle…..

[maestro]

maestro on 20040707 um 1130 Uhr #2917

i feel like shooting them all

never ran over anyone of them who had any idea of what he was talking about, no matter what the topic was

[oraqle]

oraqle on 20040711 um 1738 Uhr #2918

i personally believe that the right combination of goth and future makes for a great time…like deep, soul-wrenching conversations while playing with glo-sticks..it’s all good. kinda reminds me of my childhood with a whole “Dr. Seuss on speed” type of twist. *sigh* good times.. 😈

[hippiepunk]

hippiepunk on 20040712 um 1339 Uhr #2919

hahaha lol

[maestro]

maestro on 20040714 um 1431 Uhr #2920

@oraqle wrote:

like deep, soul-wrenching conversations while playing with glo-sticks..

this is exactly what takes all credibility out of such conversations

plus, coming from my personal experience, most of today’s fashion goths only pretend to lead deep conversations but dont know how to spell half of the words they use, not to speak of how to use them or what they mean.

since running around in black became a fad im not able to be left unbugged by such creeps in my former fav bar nor anywhere else, they shall finally learn that them wearing black too won’t give them instant and unlimited access to my cigarettes.

[belos]

belos on 20040714 um 2152 Uhr #2921

makes me wish for the old 1950’s and 1960’s

The beatnick lifestyle was a distant cousin…….but the line for them was clear.

Today…they all think I’m employed at some record shop, unless I have so many nose rings that my head is weighted down………not like I give a damn who knows what I am or what I am not…….but at least some of the misfits should be able to grab a clue ;(

[oraqle]

oraqle on 20040714 um 2348 Uhr #2922

i must admit it is extremely hard to find people anymore who know how to use words beyond two syllables, much less spell them. especially where i live. i see what you’re saying, maestro, and i can relate to it. but remember, don’t shut people out just because you think they aren’t true enough to the style they wear. it’s really hard for anyone to come up with their own style now, so they’re forced to mix and match different styles that feel true to themselves. you never know when you’ll meet someone who will completely blow you away with their conversational skill and wit…and who knows? they might just be playing with a glo-stick.
or you could always talk with those you want to shoot in the head while laughing at them in your mind and spearing them with your, I’m guessing, superior sarcasm…all the while, they’ll just think you’re being nice. stupid people are often hilarious targets. know what i’m saying? 😆
and if you’re really so comfortable in your own skin, why are you so passionate about how much you hate these posers? just let it slide and know you’re better than them.

[maestro]

maestro on 20040715 um 1219 Uhr #2923

people wearing fake hair streaks and glo sticks belong to my best friends, but those that just wear them because they have no friends anywhere else shall vanish and not tell me how cool everything is – or was, before they joined in.

i’m not against the cyber look or anything, indeed i approve of it – but i’m against watering down the scene. everyone was a newbie at some time, the problem is today they dont come because they feel it’s right for them but because they want to scare their parents, wear cool stuff, have seen too much “matrix” or just because their only friend is a goth. 2 months later those people try to discuss with you “what ‘goth’ is” 🙄

[oraqle]

oraqle on 20040723 um 0013 Uhr #2924

maybe they really feel that the goth scene is for them (not talking about the whiney clingers, that is), but people push them away convinced that the newbies don’t belong. maybe the scene has settled and wishes for no new inspiration to stir it back to life. maybe that’s why the scene is going to shit. maybe…

[maestro]

maestro on 20040723 um 1043 Uhr #2925

inspiration is the word: newbies shall inspire the scene, not be an unsuccessful cloning attempt of someone they saw in a goth magazine.

walking through a disco i see several Marylin Mansons and a ton of Chris Pohl’s (Terminal Choice/Blutengel,,) – the Eric Draven style seems to be dead but people still seem to be unable to come up with something themselves. I mean there are so many shades of black to wear – why stick to the most used?

[hippiepunk]

hippiepunk on 20040724 um 1750 Uhr #2926

wisely true, I agree with u M

[batdyke]

batdyke on 20051202 um 1342 Uhr #2927

@maestro wrote:

everyone was a newbie at some time, the problem is today they dont come because they feel it’s right for them but because they want to scare their parents, wear cool stuff, have seen too much “matrix” or just because their only friend is a goth. 2 months later those people try to discuss with you “what ‘goth’ is” 🙄

Can we feel right AND wear cool stuff? Why can’t you be serious with your outlook AND wear cool stuff? 🙁

Anyway… By all rights and when all is said and done, I’m a bit of a baby bat. Not actually old enough to enjoy clubs or anything (and to be honest, I don’t think I’ll much enjoy it when I can go).

I’ve… kinda forgotten my point and where I was going with this, so I’ll just go.

(Shades of black? I’m wearing a forest green top, a bottle green skirt, both in crushed velvet, and bright red stockings with white puffs and Christmas bells at the top! Who needs black all the time? How dull.)

[maestro]

maestro on 20051202 um 1716 Uhr #2928

@BatDyke wrote:

I’m wearing a forest green top, a bottle green skirt, both in crushed velvet, and bright red stockings with white puffs and Christmas bells at the top! Who needs black all the time? How dull.)

y’know, i dont think that would be something for me..
😀

[batdyke]

batdyke on 20051203 um 2052 Uhr #2929

@maestro wrote:

@BatDyke wrote:

I’m wearing a forest green top, a bottle green skirt, both in crushed velvet, and bright red stockings with white puffs and Christmas bells at the top! Who needs black all the time? How dull.)

y’know, i dont think that would be something for me..
😀

Not like Robin Hood!

And for your information, my stockings are like these: http://www.glamourbox.co.uk/images/christmas_6283.jpg

[maestro]

maestro on 20051204 um 1156 Uhr #2930

hm..pics? 😀

[maestro]

maestro on 20060118 um 1107 Uhr #2931

@oraqle wrote:

like deep, soul-wrenching conversations while playing with glo-sticks..it’s all good.

So that’s what you guys do when the rest of us think you’re dancing on speed ❓

[lovewithdiamonds]

lovewithdiamonds on 20060321 um 0510 Uhr #2932

@Vorsuc wrote:

Never seen the point in Ecstasy … I can dance like a twat well enough on Vodka alone.

nice one…. had the funniest picture in my mind inspired by this statement….

And was watching drugged-up people dance at this club i went to last night – was extremely funny….esp as i was rather drunk and a little stoned myself…

[maestro]

maestro on 20060326 um 1709 Uhr #2933

@LoveWithDiamonds wrote:

drugged-up people dance

Which presumably ends up in eating the neighbours in your part of the world 😉

[necromancerza]

necromancerza on 20060327 um 1106 Uhr #2934

Which presumably ends up in eating the neighbours in your part of the world

😈
Good neighbours are so hard to come by these days 🙁

[thecountess]

thecountess on 20060327 um 2121 Uhr #2935

Hmmm what is goth? I agree with everyone else we could talk about this one til the cows come home but ok I will give this a brief stab – Based on my own experiences it can be several different things like a friend of mine painted his whole yard black and decorated his house in deep purple and black so he thought that was being “Goth” another person I know thought “Goth” was having fiber optics in the hair and sitting in a corner looking depressed and such. I think “Goth” is more a state of mind than fashion true fashion has played a big part of it and has become a very profitable industry but I think “Goth” is whatever you want it to be there is no right way or wrong way to express yourself which I think makes it fun because it allows you to always reinvent yourself. It’s free will to be angry one day and brooding the next or a lolita or a gothed out fetish chick. I think that is why the culture continues to thrive because anything goes. Am I Goth? Hmmm that’s hard to say I’ve been pinned as one in the past and that is ok I have also been pinned a punk to in one of my past lives – LOL! That is why I embrace the ecclectic it keeps everyone guessing just who and what you are adding an air of mystery. Cheers!

[necromancerza]

necromancerza on 20060328 um 1059 Uhr #2936

“Goth” is more a state of mind than fashion

I agree with that ….
Anyone can dress Goth and say they are and pretend they are, but it is
truely a different way of seeing the world.
This “every day is halloween” and “I`m so depressed i`m going to slit my wrists”
way of thinking is in my opinion for kids going thru` stages .. hell, you`ll see them
going to raves sooner or later.

So … true gothdom lies in ( my opinion) your mind and not in the clothes you
wear.

[maestro]

maestro on 20060328 um 1219 Uhr #2937

i find those most funny that claim the goth style is more or less for sophisticated thinkers, the more brooding and intellectul parts of society.

Seriously, it has become a fashion parade, with girls you wouldn’t recognize without facepaint the next morning.
Admittedly they would indeed not let themselves be bought by having money or a fancy car – painted eyebrows and wearing a skirt fully suffices for those guys desperate enough

Don’t like the lyrics of hiphop songs? Here we go, Feindflug and Xotox, no lyrics at all.

Think punks are antisocial? Of course, but watch those 40 year old tradgoths with the crown hairstyle that fuck teenage girls on that matress without bed around it they have in their appartment – cause their sophistication doesn’t tell them that you don’t get a job with that hair.

Never mind the pvc sluts as long as there are those with the lace dresses, doing all ladylike.
I only wonder how medieval ladies explained sleeping around to their folks.
” i only had 6 guys this month, i am no slut ” 🙄

Seriously, the argument of goth beeing for the thinkers only doesn’t seem all too valid for me

[necromancerza]

necromancerza on 20060328 um 1242 Uhr #2938

Seriously, the argument of goth beeing for the thinkers only doesn’t seem all too valid for me

But Maestro .. true goths are the thinkers .. the others are but mere shadows.
But if labels apply and they are “goth” then I`m not.

Let me elaborate on myself.
I am not uber-Goth ( WTF? i listen to the same music )
I dont dress Goth every day ( I have a proffesional career )
I do not even have a Goth social ring.. ( the friends i have are fine )

So .. there are a lot of people that live the lifestyle to the extreme but lack the mentality, which in my opinion is the true foundation of goth, and not the perversion of goth incarnate in these mindless fucking retards.

[necromancerza]

necromancerza on 20060417 um 1402 Uhr #2939

Oh… BTW people… I have just been to a site where this topic has reached 7 pages and they are no nearer that anyone else.
Everyone has their own Idea of what it is, so I`ll leave you with a closing statement.

Statement: Goth means and comes from exactly where you , (insert your name here) ,
allways thought it came from.

[sacredsin]

sacredsin on 20060425 um 1726 Uhr #2940

@oraqle wrote:

many people in my somewhat small and backward town believe that i am a goth simply because i wear black t-shirts and have an “i don’t give a shit” attitude about life and everything in it and i have always corrected them by saying that “i’m not goth..i’m all of the above.” but it’s got me wondering, what exactly is being goth? is it the color of your clothes and the music you listen to? i mean, is there some goth headquarters out there that decides that off grey is the NEW fad for goths vs. the almost black grey that was in style last year? (sarcasm alert!) if so, i haven’t got the memo..lol.
or does it have to do with attitude or something equally, yet somehow more profoundly, internal?
just a thought.

Well in my opinion there are true goths and poser goths. I believe that “goth” is a mindset more than a fasion, though fashion does have a lot to do with the goth culture. I don’t think being goth means you’re always depressed or extremely dark, but rather a mindset where you’re inclined towards darker things.
I believe poser goths (those that I have to see everyday at school) are those who dress goth because its what everyone else is doing and because they know it can help them get guys.
Just my two cents. 🙂

[necromancerza]

necromancerza on 20060426 um 1239 Uhr #2941

I like the way you think …. but also add that the poser Goths will eventually
end up as ravers.