Zitat von maestro am 20 Februar, 2007, 0753 Uhr

Does this include the little lolita who is only in it for the mysterious guys looking like anime figures? Or to the graver who defines himself through his knowlegde of the latest one hit wonders, however crappy they might be?

I think i remember what you're talking about and sometimes i wonder where it went, too. But as the scene changes as a whole, willingly or not, to the better or worse, we might sometimes have to redefine our overall perception of what is goth to adapt to the people we meet every weekend. I might be the devil's advocate here but i can hardly be the only one asking myself "what am i doing here" every friday night. The question is can all these people be not goth at all, or did goth change to something we others don't understand anymore?

Zitat von robc666 am 20 Februar, 2007, 0835 Uhr

I think both us and the scene have changed. It's what happens, those that start something give way to those that carry it on.
It comes down to a simmple choice: like it or lump it. If you dont like the way goth's going, or the people coming into the scene, then stay away from the sub-culture.

Change happens whether we want it to or not, you can either accept it or move aside. It might not be nice but that's the way is and the way it will always be.

Zitat von withdrawalfx am 20 Februar, 2007, 0926 Uhr

well, I suppose every scene evolves throughout it's existance but shouldn't there be something that remains deep at it's core?
Wouldn't it be sad that goths are degraded to the pre-emo stereotype of dark kids cutting wrists and writing crappy black poetry? My only fear is that this is what we're heading for again with this subculture... I'd really hate for that to happen again.

as for the loli's and the Gravers... I consider them seperate cultures, for the only thing they have in common with it are perhaps a few overlaping genres of music (from the cyber catergories) and in some cases a darker touch to their clothing than most ppl would wear (in case of the gravers). Cuz lets face it, the loli's are a typical japanese fenomenon with an entirely different origin and the gravers are more a subgroup of ravers than that they are goth.

Zitat von necromancerza am 20 Februar, 2007, 1025 Uhr

The question is can all these people be not goth at all, or did goth change to something we others don't understand anymore?

It appears then that EBM has reached that stage where not all the people come from a Goth or Goth-like background.

Let me explain:
When crossover was made between Goth and EBM , all EBM-ers where still Goth in some aspect or another and still had that Sisters Of Mercy cd playing in the car :wink: .. but now people (young ones) are getting involved and not having the Goth background or culture.
Now you get a club filled with people who see themselves as goth, but could just as happily go to the rave club around the corner if it was not for the fact that everyone there dresses crap.
Electro will become a evolution of rave with the absence of Goth :(

Hope I`m conveying my message clearly.

Ps. If you said "Sisters of who?" then you are clearly beyond help. :evil:

Zitat von withdrawalfx am 20 Februar, 2007, 1223 Uhr

I've never really considered EBM and aggrotech as goth, but the dark theme a lot of artists adopt just seemed to fit nicely with the goth image.
Darkwave on the other hand...

Zitat von withdrawalfx am 21 Februar, 2007, 0824 Uhr

damn... I re-read a few of my latest posts and I seem to be repeating myself... if that happens again in the future just tell me to shut my trap, k guys? 8)