Zitat von thesunsetter am 26 Juni, 2006, 1118 Uhr

emm well i think proper gothic music has to be My Chemical Romance lol, nah emm well The Sisters of Mercy ofcourse, well despite people's opinions you cannot say Cradle of Filth aren't a gothic band, emm The Cure, Graveworm ect... anything uber good, gothic ofcourse lol and non commercial, or if it is not in a sell out way...

Zitat von emissary am 26 Juni, 2006, 1652 Uhr

Well, but it seems to be aye hard, to make difference in what is "true" goth and what is not...
I mean, in former, there has been stuff like rock, goth rock etc .
Do you think the electronic music does effect on "real" gothic?

Is it possible to combine all those genres, like done overhere in Germany?
I think there must be a reason, why every party location separates the styles....

btw where from scotland are ye? caus half of my family's from stirling and around....

Zitat von thesunsetter am 2 Juli, 2006, 0729 Uhr

sweet! i'm from Dumfries down south west, been to Stirling though, went to the William Wallace monument and something to do with my uncle i can't remember lol, but sweet! tis a nice country sometimes...

Zitat von maestro am 2 Juli, 2006, 1449 Uhr

i think the 'real' gothic music is a disease, it cancers this planet
and EBM is the cure... ;)

Aside from that, it seems that at least in germany combining the different genres in different areas of one party did the trick to bring a lot of people together and form a larger community, as people will not just know the local punker crowd but also a lot of industrial and medieval folks. Still everyone can take off to their own areas once the 80s hall is tortured with Peter Murphy again

And pure EBM discos probably wouldnt feature the industrial skirt fags you get to enjoy endless rants about - a perfect world is boring, too ;)

Zitat von emissary am 26 Juli, 2006, 0544 Uhr

Probably you're right on that,
Well but what about an ebam/industrial only party without the skirt-fraction???
With face and clothing controls at the entry? lol
That could work fine ^^
btw perfection is the goal...
resistance is futile!! ;-)

Zitat von withdrawalfx am 16 Dezember, 2006, 0751 Uhr

to me, true gothic music is the stuff from back in the day they played at the batcave and the likes.
all the other stuff ppl seem to regard as gothic these days (ebm, darkwave, noize, industrial, synthpop/futurepop, etc.) simply isn't imo. I'm not saying a goth can't like it (since I regard being goth more as a way of life then a pref in music) but the ones that actually had the right to use the name imo are those gothrock/wave bands from the past and those that are in that genre.

Zitat von maestro am 16 Dezember, 2006, 1122 Uhr

Well, mind how no industrial band ever claims to be gothic.

I'm uncertain if "gothic" as you define it would have survived for so long if the line was drawn strictly at batcave. Of course many of the tradgoths have the opinion that everyone else doesn't really belong on the party and should be kicked out - but that would leave three very lonely tradgoths and two illegal immigrants mopping around their feet, nothing anyone would open a club for.

I also wouldn't say EBM and stuff literally put "new blood" into gothic, since many of the techno people are actually older than the available tradgoths, but i think it's at least partly due to the other new style elements that gothic didn't vanish into oblivion. Without new people the tradgoths who really saw the batcave time would have moved elsewhere now just to not have to talk to each other only for decades.

Which also brings me to the different topic of how high the "recruiting factor" of goth parties is

Zitat von withdrawalfx am 16 Dezember, 2006, 1424 Uhr

@maestro wrote:

Well, mind how no industrial band ever claims to be gothic.

I'm uncertain if "gothic" as you define it would have survived for so long if the line was drawn strictly at batcave. Of course many of the tradgoths have the opinion that everyone else doesn't really belong on the party and should be kicked out - but that would leave three very lonely tradgoths and two illegal immigrants mopping around their feet, nothing anyone would open a club for.

I also wouldn't say EBM and stuff literally put "new blood" into gothic, since many of the techno people are actually older than the available tradgoths, but i think it's at least partly due to the other new style elements that gothic didn't vanish into oblivion. Without new people the tradgoths who really saw the batcave time would have moved elsewhere now just to not have to talk to each other only for decades.

Which also brings me to the different topic of how high the "recruiting factor" of goth parties is

I think I did convey my message clearly.
I meant that all those "new" style were a good addition to someone who has take goth as their way of life, but I think the name "goth" in music shouldn't be used to describe anything but the initial styles like they were in the batcave days.
Its like all the ppl these days calling anything remotely harsh and electronic "industrial". Same thing, ppl who initially listened to industrial can add all the other stuff as well but you don't have to name everything "industrial" because of it.
Am I making sence?
If not, I appologise but my mind wants to say so much but my fingers can only type this slow :(

Zitat von maestro am 16 Dezember, 2006, 1807 Uhr

@WithdrawalFX wrote:

I think I did convey my message clearly.

You did but i just disagree :D

The term "batcave" itself is pretty widely used for Batcave-era and similar music, as is the term "gothic metal" for Type O Negative and "gothic rock" for - if you want to put them and the word "rock" into one sentence - Lacrimosa.

What i mean is that all of these are, at least for me, subgenres of the larger genre of "gothic music" which i'd define as music goths like to listen to

Zitat von withdrawalfx am 17 Dezember, 2006, 0438 Uhr

@maestro wrote:

@WithdrawalFX wrote:

I think I did convey my message clearly.

You did but i just disagree :D

[/i]

ah, I see where you're going now

(and the ' I did' was suppossed to be 'I didn't', type-o :roll: )

Zitat von anaesthetic am 17 Februar, 2007, 0715 Uhr

i don't care to classify anything as true or truer than anything else. i listen to a variety of music which may be considered gothic or goth-tinged.. and a lot which is popular among goths but isn't necessarily gothic itself. i like the music so what more matters?

Zitat von robc666 am 18 Februar, 2007, 1438 Uhr

Is goth all about the music anyway? Or is goth more about a way of life, a way of thinking and acting? Or am i being pretentious and talking out of my moon sized backside?

Zitat von maestro am 18 Februar, 2007, 1708 Uhr

It might be a lifestyle tailored along music in lack of anything else like a set of ethics or conscience.

Come to think of it even the last rules of decency have been broken in recent years, so there isn't much left holding people together besides "listen to x, wear black". Maybe that is why goth is so hard to define, because nobody wants to accept it's so simple

Zitat von robc666 am 19 Februar, 2007, 0747 Uhr

@maestro wrote:

It might be a lifestyle tailored along music in lack of anything else like a set of ethics or conscience.

Come to think of it even the last rules of decency have been broken in recent years, so there isn't much left holding people together besides "listen to x, wear black". Maybe that is why goth is so hard to define, because nobody wants to accept it's so simple

I see your point. In a world with no taboos to shock is the hardest thing of all, and if the point of goth is to be differnt and to shcok. then when it becomes immposible to do so goth becomes something differnt, something much harder to define.