[emissary]

emissary on 20060626 um 0939 Uhr #692

What’s your opinion?
What is “true” goth music?
Is it the mixture?
Or are there borders in between?
Or is it all equally worthless? ? 😉

[thesunsetter]

thesunsetter on 20060626 um 1118 Uhr #5599

emm well i think proper gothic music has to be My Chemical Romance lol, nah emm well The Sisters of Mercy ofcourse, well despite people’s opinions you cannot say Cradle of Filth aren’t a gothic band, emm The Cure, Graveworm ect… anything uber good, gothic ofcourse lol and non commercial, or if it is not in a sell out way…

[emissary]

emissary on 20060626 um 1652 Uhr #5600

Well, but it seems to be aye hard, to make difference in what is “true” goth and what is not…
I mean, in former, there has been stuff like rock, goth rock etc .
Do you think the electronic music does effect on “real” gothic?

Is it possible to combine all those genres, like done overhere in Germany?
I think there must be a reason, why every party location separates the styles….

btw where from scotland are ye? caus half of my family’s from stirling and around….

[thesunsetter]

thesunsetter on 20060702 um 0729 Uhr #5601

sweet! i’m from Dumfries down south west, been to Stirling though, went to the William Wallace monument and something to do with my uncle i can’t remember lol, but sweet! tis a nice country sometimes…

[maestro]

maestro on 20060702 um 1449 Uhr #5602

i think the ‘real’ gothic music is a disease, it cancers this planet
and EBM is the cure… 😉

Aside from that, it seems that at least in germany combining the different genres in different areas of one party did the trick to bring a lot of people together and form a larger community, as people will not just know the local punker crowd but also a lot of industrial and medieval folks. Still everyone can take off to their own areas once the 80s hall is tortured with Peter Murphy again

And pure EBM discos probably wouldnt feature the industrial skirt fags you get to enjoy endless rants about – a perfect world is boring, too 😉

[emissary]

emissary on 20060726 um 0544 Uhr #5603

Probably you’re right on that,
Well but what about an ebam/industrial only party without the skirt-fraction???
With face and clothing controls at the entry? lol
That could work fine ^^
btw perfection is the goal…
resistance is futile!! 😉

[withdrawalfx]

withdrawalfx on 20061216 um 0751 Uhr #5604

to me, true gothic music is the stuff from back in the day they played at the batcave and the likes.
all the other stuff ppl seem to regard as gothic these days (ebm, darkwave, noize, industrial, synthpop/futurepop, etc.) simply isn’t imo. I’m not saying a goth can’t like it (since I regard being goth more as a way of life then a pref in music) but the ones that actually had the right to use the name imo are those gothrock/wave bands from the past and those that are in that genre.

[maestro]

maestro on 20061216 um 1122 Uhr #5605

Well, mind how no industrial band ever claims to be gothic.

I’m uncertain if “gothic” as you define it would have survived for so long if the line was drawn strictly at batcave. Of course many of the tradgoths have the opinion that everyone else doesn’t really belong on the party and should be kicked out – but that would leave three very lonely tradgoths and two illegal immigrants mopping around their feet, nothing anyone would open a club for.

I also wouldn’t say EBM and stuff literally put “new blood” into gothic, since many of the techno people are actually older than the available tradgoths, but i think it’s at least partly due to the other new style elements that gothic didn’t vanish into oblivion. Without new people the tradgoths who really saw the batcave time would have moved elsewhere now just to not have to talk to each other only for decades.

Which also brings me to the different topic of how high the “recruiting factor” of goth parties is

[withdrawalfx]

withdrawalfx on 20061216 um 1424 Uhr #5606

@maestro wrote:

Well, mind how no industrial band ever claims to be gothic.

I’m uncertain if “gothic” as you define it would have survived for so long if the line was drawn strictly at batcave. Of course many of the tradgoths have the opinion that everyone else doesn’t really belong on the party and should be kicked out – but that would leave three very lonely tradgoths and two illegal immigrants mopping around their feet, nothing anyone would open a club for.

I also wouldn’t say EBM and stuff literally put “new blood” into gothic, since many of the techno people are actually older than the available tradgoths, but i think it’s at least partly due to the other new style elements that gothic didn’t vanish into oblivion. Without new people the tradgoths who really saw the batcave time would have moved elsewhere now just to not have to talk to each other only for decades.

Which also brings me to the different topic of how high the “recruiting factor” of goth parties is

I think I did convey my message clearly.
I meant that all those “new” style were a good addition to someone who has take goth as their way of life, but I think the name “goth” in music shouldn’t be used to describe anything but the initial styles like they were in the batcave days.
Its like all the ppl these days calling anything remotely harsh and electronic “industrial”. Same thing, ppl who initially listened to industrial can add all the other stuff as well but you don’t have to name everything “industrial” because of it.
Am I making sence?
If not, I appologise but my mind wants to say so much but my fingers can only type this slow 🙁

[maestro]

maestro on 20061216 um 1807 Uhr #5607

@WithdrawalFX wrote:

I think I did convey my message clearly.

You did but i just disagree 😀

The term “batcave” itself is pretty widely used for Batcave-era and similar music, as is the term “gothic metal” for Type O Negative and “gothic rock” for – if you want to put them and the word “rock” into one sentence – Lacrimosa.

What i mean is that all of these are, at least for me, subgenres of the larger genre of “gothic music” which i’d define as music goths like to listen to

[withdrawalfx]

withdrawalfx on 20061217 um 0438 Uhr #5608

@maestro wrote:

@WithdrawalFX wrote:

I think I did convey my message clearly.

You did but i just disagree 😀

[/i]

ah, I see where you’re going now

(and the ‘ I did’ was suppossed to be ‘I didn’t’, type-o 🙄 )

[anaesthetic]

anaesthetic on 20070217 um 0715 Uhr #5609

i don’t care to classify anything as true or truer than anything else. i listen to a variety of music which may be considered gothic or goth-tinged.. and a lot which is popular among goths but isn’t necessarily gothic itself. i like the music so what more matters?

[robc666]

robc666 on 20070218 um 1438 Uhr #5610

Is goth all about the music anyway? Or is goth more about a way of life, a way of thinking and acting? Or am i being pretentious and talking out of my moon sized backside?

[maestro]

maestro on 20070218 um 1708 Uhr #5611

It might be a lifestyle tailored along music in lack of anything else like a set of ethics or conscience.

Come to think of it even the last rules of decency have been broken in recent years, so there isn’t much left holding people together besides “listen to x, wear black”. Maybe that is why goth is so hard to define, because nobody wants to accept it’s so simple

[robc666]

robc666 on 20070219 um 0747 Uhr #5612

@maestro wrote:

It might be a lifestyle tailored along music in lack of anything else like a set of ethics or conscience.

Come to think of it even the last rules of decency have been broken in recent years, so there isn’t much left holding people together besides “listen to x, wear black”. Maybe that is why goth is so hard to define, because nobody wants to accept it’s so simple

I see your point. In a world with no taboos to shock is the hardest thing of all, and if the point of goth is to be differnt and to shcok. then when it becomes immposible to do so goth becomes something differnt, something much harder to define.

[withdrawalfx]

withdrawalfx on 20070220 um 0341 Uhr #5613

dunno, to me there is still a mindset that goes with being goth.
I can’t really explain it but I’ve noticed that ppl who are serious about being goth have a certain way of looking at things that seems to come with the lifestyle.

[maestro]

maestro on 20070220 um 0753 Uhr #5614

Does this include the little lolita who is only in it for the mysterious guys looking like anime figures? Or to the graver who defines himself through his knowlegde of the latest one hit wonders, however crappy they might be?

I think i remember what you’re talking about and sometimes i wonder where it went, too. But as the scene changes as a whole, willingly or not, to the better or worse, we might sometimes have to redefine our overall perception of what is goth to adapt to the people we meet every weekend. I might be the devil’s advocate here but i can hardly be the only one asking myself “what am i doing here” every friday night. The question is can all these people be not goth at all, or did goth change to something we others don’t understand anymore?

[robc666]

robc666 on 20070220 um 0835 Uhr #5615

I think both us and the scene have changed. It’s what happens, those that start something give way to those that carry it on.
It comes down to a simmple choice: like it or lump it. If you dont like the way goth’s going, or the people coming into the scene, then stay away from the sub-culture.

Change happens whether we want it to or not, you can either accept it or move aside. It might not be nice but that’s the way is and the way it will always be.

[withdrawalfx]

withdrawalfx on 20070220 um 0926 Uhr #5616

well, I suppose every scene evolves throughout it’s existance but shouldn’t there be something that remains deep at it’s core?
Wouldn’t it be sad that goths are degraded to the pre-emo stereotype of dark kids cutting wrists and writing crappy black poetry? My only fear is that this is what we’re heading for again with this subculture… I’d really hate for that to happen again.

as for the loli’s and the Gravers… I consider them seperate cultures, for the only thing they have in common with it are perhaps a few overlaping genres of music (from the cyber catergories) and in some cases a darker touch to their clothing than most ppl would wear (in case of the gravers). Cuz lets face it, the loli’s are a typical japanese fenomenon with an entirely different origin and the gravers are more a subgroup of ravers than that they are goth.

[necromancerza]

necromancerza on 20070220 um 1025 Uhr #5617

The question is can all these people be not goth at all, or did goth change to something we others don’t understand anymore?

It appears then that EBM has reached that stage where not all the people come from a Goth or Goth-like background.

Let me explain:
When crossover was made between Goth and EBM , all EBM-ers where still Goth in some aspect or another and still had that Sisters Of Mercy cd playing in the car 😉 .. but now people (young ones) are getting involved and not having the Goth background or culture.
Now you get a club filled with people who see themselves as goth, but could just as happily go to the rave club around the corner if it was not for the fact that everyone there dresses crap.
Electro will become a evolution of rave with the absence of Goth 🙁

Hope I`m conveying my message clearly.

Ps. If you said “Sisters of who?” then you are clearly beyond help. 👿

[withdrawalfx]

withdrawalfx on 20070220 um 1223 Uhr #5618

I’ve never really considered EBM and aggrotech as goth, but the dark theme a lot of artists adopt just seemed to fit nicely with the goth image.
Darkwave on the other hand…

[withdrawalfx]

withdrawalfx on 20070221 um 0824 Uhr #5619

damn… I re-read a few of my latest posts and I seem to be repeating myself… if that happens again in the future just tell me to shut my trap, k guys? 8)