Vampire response to the Dawson College shootings
Zitat von maestro am 21 September, 2006, 0753 UhrSo as we all know there was another school shooting which the media connected to goth culture.
This time in Canada at Dawson College with one dead victim and several hurt.
The killer got gunned down by local police.While the gunman obviously had an account on the goth website vampirefreaks.com, absolutely astonishingly not a single newspaper made up a connection to the vampire scene. Again not a single request for comment flew into anyone's inbox here and noone even mentioned there are people who live a vampire lifestyle in the most yellow of press.
Still, here is Michelle Belanger's
Open Letter to the Students & Faculty of Dawson College:First, allow me to extend my deepest condolences to the students and
faculty of Dawson College, as well as to the people of Montreal. May those who have lost their lives in this tragedy find peace, and may those who have been wounded find healing and reconciliation.My name is Michelle Belanger, and I am the author of a number of books on the modern vampire community, including the best-selling "Psychic Vampire Codex" (Weiser, 2004). As a key member of the international vampire subculture, allow me to reassure my Canadian neighbors that our community is one that cherishes knowledge, beauty, and life. We are not individuals who engage in reckless violence, and we uphold strict rules within the community that discourage illegal behavior. Individuals who associate themselves
with our community who nevertheless engage in destructive, violent acts are the equivalent of Christians who murder abortion doctors or Muslims who commit ritual suicide in market squares. They are people who have independently developed their own skewed interpretation of an otherwise positive ideal, and they independently act in a manner that sullies that ideal indelibly.At the core of both the vampire and Goth communities is a love and
reverence for life. If we romance death in poetry, art, and song, it is only in the tradition of the Romantic poets, acknowledging the brevity of life which therefore makes living all the more precious. The vast majority of vampires and Goths are pacifists. In many ways, we share the ideals of our parents' counter-culture, the Hippies. We've only traded peace symbols for ankhs and tie-dye for black velvet.Within the vampire community we do have a warrior tradition, and yet
even this is a peaceful tradition. Those in the vampire community who
identify with the warrior archetype acknowledge that they are capable of violence, as are all human beings. Their path encourages them to come to terms with this impulse and, rather than repressing it, find healthy outlets such as music, poetry, and art to sublimate anger, stress, or rage. This gives anger a healthy outlet, allowing a disciplined individual to turn a potentially destructive impulse into something creative and beautiful.As "dark" subcultures, both the vampire and Gothic subcultures
sometimes attract troubled, disaffected youth. You see this also with the heavy metal music community, and any group that has a counter-cultural undercurrent to its core beliefs and ideals. But it is our policy not to encourage the troubles of these individuals but to direct them toward help so they can work their issues out in a manner that is positive and healthy for all.Legitimate groups within the vampire community, such as my own House Kheperu, have strict rules of access so that no one is accepted as a member who is mentally or emotionally unbalanced. In addition, we support a set of behavioral guidelines known as the Black Veil. This set of guidelines is very specific on the point of illegal behavior in two of its seven tenets.
The tenet of "Control" clearly states: "Do not allow your darkness to
consume you. …Always act with a mind toward safety. …Be true to your nature, but never use it as an excuse to endanger those around you." Likewise, "Behavior" is a simple rewording of the "Golden Rule:" "Do not allow others to abuse you, but also, do not selfishly abuse. …Respect the rights of others and treat them as you would be treated." The full seven tenets of the Black Veil can be found on numerous websites affiliated with the vampire community as well as in several books, including my own.Once again, I offer my deepest condolences to those who have suffered in any way as a result of this attack, but I urge you to understand that an individual's actions are as result of his or her own choices and should not be used to damn a group. I ask you, please: before you judge the rest of us by association, find the seat of tolerance in your hearts and learn more about the groups that Kimveer Gill himself so grievously misunderstood.
--Michelle Belanger
michelle@michellebelanger.com
PO Box 1120
Brunswick, OH 44212
330-391-0882(full permission to circulate and reprint granted; I am also available
for media contact & interviews)
So as we all know there was another school shooting which the media connected to goth culture.
This time in Canada at Dawson College with one dead victim and several hurt.
The killer got gunned down by local police.
While the gunman obviously had an account on the goth website vampirefreaks.com, absolutely astonishingly not a single newspaper made up a connection to the vampire scene. Again not a single request for comment flew into anyone's inbox here and noone even mentioned there are people who live a vampire lifestyle in the most yellow of press.
Still, here is Michelle Belanger's
Open Letter to the Students & Faculty of Dawson College:
First, allow me to extend my deepest condolences to the students and
faculty of Dawson College, as well as to the people of Montreal. May those who have lost their lives in this tragedy find peace, and may those who have been wounded find healing and reconciliation.
My name is Michelle Belanger, and I am the author of a number of books on the modern vampire community, including the best-selling "Psychic Vampire Codex" (Weiser, 2004). As a key member of the international vampire subculture, allow me to reassure my Canadian neighbors that our community is one that cherishes knowledge, beauty, and life. We are not individuals who engage in reckless violence, and we uphold strict rules within the community that discourage illegal behavior. Individuals who associate themselves
with our community who nevertheless engage in destructive, violent acts are the equivalent of Christians who murder abortion doctors or Muslims who commit ritual suicide in market squares. They are people who have independently developed their own skewed interpretation of an otherwise positive ideal, and they independently act in a manner that sullies that ideal indelibly.
At the core of both the vampire and Goth communities is a love and
reverence for life. If we romance death in poetry, art, and song, it is only in the tradition of the Romantic poets, acknowledging the brevity of life which therefore makes living all the more precious. The vast majority of vampires and Goths are pacifists. In many ways, we share the ideals of our parents' counter-culture, the Hippies. We've only traded peace symbols for ankhs and tie-dye for black velvet.
Within the vampire community we do have a warrior tradition, and yet
even this is a peaceful tradition. Those in the vampire community who
identify with the warrior archetype acknowledge that they are capable of violence, as are all human beings. Their path encourages them to come to terms with this impulse and, rather than repressing it, find healthy outlets such as music, poetry, and art to sublimate anger, stress, or rage. This gives anger a healthy outlet, allowing a disciplined individual to turn a potentially destructive impulse into something creative and beautiful.
As "dark" subcultures, both the vampire and Gothic subcultures
sometimes attract troubled, disaffected youth. You see this also with the heavy metal music community, and any group that has a counter-cultural undercurrent to its core beliefs and ideals. But it is our policy not to encourage the troubles of these individuals but to direct them toward help so they can work their issues out in a manner that is positive and healthy for all.
Legitimate groups within the vampire community, such as my own House Kheperu, have strict rules of access so that no one is accepted as a member who is mentally or emotionally unbalanced. In addition, we support a set of behavioral guidelines known as the Black Veil. This set of guidelines is very specific on the point of illegal behavior in two of its seven tenets.
The tenet of "Control" clearly states: "Do not allow your darkness to
consume you. …Always act with a mind toward safety. …Be true to your nature, but never use it as an excuse to endanger those around you." Likewise, "Behavior" is a simple rewording of the "Golden Rule:" "Do not allow others to abuse you, but also, do not selfishly abuse. …Respect the rights of others and treat them as you would be treated." The full seven tenets of the Black Veil can be found on numerous websites affiliated with the vampire community as well as in several books, including my own.
Once again, I offer my deepest condolences to those who have suffered in any way as a result of this attack, but I urge you to understand that an individual's actions are as result of his or her own choices and should not be used to damn a group. I ask you, please: before you judge the rest of us by association, find the seat of tolerance in your hearts and learn more about the groups that Kimveer Gill himself so grievously misunderstood.
--Michelle Belanger
michelle@michellebelanger.com
PO Box 1120
Brunswick, OH 44212
330-391-0882
(full permission to circulate and reprint granted; I am also available
for media contact & interviews)
Zitat von maestro am 21 September, 2006, 0757 UhrIt has become routine for the media to check certain options when it comes to reporting about new "psycho" teens - and checking if they had a vampirefreaks profile is probably already higher on that list than sorting through their myspace account or interviewing their parents.
I really doubt i need to comment anything at all about MB's big pile of steaming bull there in detail, but if anyone from the outside didn't think that people who follow a vampire lifestyle have some loose screws before, now they're probably very certain:
The term "no comment." isn't an immediate sign of giving in wrongdoing and so far giving no statements at all has neither harmed the goth community nor the vampire groups who weren't directly accused. So why, besides out of a pure need to have your name in the newspapers, be it as bringer of world peace or ( incase that didn't work out) total nutcase should one want to comment on something that's no direct fault of their own actions if it absolutely WON'T be interpreted the right way?
Probably someone got thinking "well, for everyone not already involved i seem to be the leading figure and first contact person in the vamp community and they get to know my books, too" - so everyone who reads it and is attracted by the never to be fully printed and hacked to fit media purposes text cut to give the impression of a total nutjob community of serial killers will think you're the queen of the hill, good job.
Not that there's much to change with the letter, since we have a warrior tradition and all.
It has become routine for the media to check certain options when it comes to reporting about new "psycho" teens - and checking if they had a vampirefreaks profile is probably already higher on that list than sorting through their myspace account or interviewing their parents.
I really doubt i need to comment anything at all about MB's big pile of steaming bull there in detail, but if anyone from the outside didn't think that people who follow a vampire lifestyle have some loose screws before, now they're probably very certain:
The term "no comment." isn't an immediate sign of giving in wrongdoing and so far giving no statements at all has neither harmed the goth community nor the vampire groups who weren't directly accused. So why, besides out of a pure need to have your name in the newspapers, be it as bringer of world peace or ( incase that didn't work out) total nutcase should one want to comment on something that's no direct fault of their own actions if it absolutely WON'T be interpreted the right way?
Probably someone got thinking "well, for everyone not already involved i seem to be the leading figure and first contact person in the vamp community and they get to know my books, too" - so everyone who reads it and is attracted by the never to be fully printed and hacked to fit media purposes text cut to give the impression of a total nutjob community of serial killers will think you're the queen of the hill, good job.
Not that there's much to change with the letter, since we have a warrior tradition and all.
Zitat von thesunsetter am 21 September, 2006, 1124 UhrI really feel for the families of the kids, what a disgusting and sick thing for that guy to do. I seen the news report of it which focused on the guy being a "goth" and ofcourse I am completely sicked by the response VampireFreaks got for trying to save money for a charity which would help the victims. For anyone who hasn't read it here's a link Here but be warned the person who wrote is well in short a dick, but moving on from the pathetic stereotypical comments by the media on people who didn't know they guy, or have anything to do with him. A real tragedy, my sympathy for the children and their families...
I really feel for the families of the kids, what a disgusting and sick thing for that guy to do. I seen the news report of it which focused on the guy being a "goth" and ofcourse I am completely sicked by the response VampireFreaks got for trying to save money for a charity which would help the victims. For anyone who hasn't read it here's a link Here but be warned the person who wrote is well in short a dick, but moving on from the pathetic stereotypical comments by the media on people who didn't know they guy, or have anything to do with him. A real tragedy, my sympathy for the children and their families...
Zitat von maestro am 4 Oktober, 2006, 1751 UhrThe voice of wisdom, hailing from furtherdown.org just did the right thing and answered Michelle Belanger with an equally open letter i'd like to present here:
The following is a response to the open letter that Michelle Belanger issued in the wake of the recent 'Canadian Columbine' shooting that was emailed to her.
I wish to thank all those involved from the vampire comunity who provided support, encouragement, corrections and advice in helping to put this response together.
This was a joint effort and I could not have done it without you.
An open letter to Michelle Belanger
A person within our community trying to improve public perception and express their sympathies is to be heartily commended. Let us not be mistaken though, this was never your true intention behind your open letter.
At best it is nothing more than a display of staggering ignorance by someone who claims to not only hold the interests of the community dear to their heart, but who also pushes themselves as 'an authority' on the topic.
At worst this is self-promotion and opportunism in a most disgusting and vile manner.
You display unforgivable hypocrisy in your call for others to display tolerance and an open minded attitude towards this community, when your own intolerant hatred prevents you donating to an Islamic charity {1} working hard to correct the wrongs you accuse them of {2}.
The commentary on your journal spews forth with all manner of idealism about how in the wake of visible hate crimes after Columbine, you were convinced that if your letters were printed you could improve perceptions and convince the world we are not evil or malicious.
It is almost believable had you not already offered the rather more realistic opinion that the truth of the matter is that no words will shake those who commit hate crimes:
"They're not attacking necessarily out of a sense that you're different or more powerful or evil or anything like that -- they're attacking for the pure and simple fact that you're different.
...
9 times out of 10 these people could care less whether or not we're "real" vampires. They're just lashing out at something they don't understand -- something that's not like them" {3}Yet now there is a sudden urgency to have your name and your thoughts printed and in the media. Why now, Michelle, when you've ignored countless such events in the past.
Where were you in 2002 when Mathew Hardman hit the news for having murdered a 90 year old pensioner {5}, removing her heart and drinking her blood to become a vampire after reading instructions on the Internet. An incident that not only went without a public letter from you, but even a discussion on this matter within the House Kheperu mailing list {6} failed to draw a single comment from you.
How about more recent events? October 2005, Scott Dyleski murdered his neighbor and was charged with first-degree murder, the media running with the 'troubled Goth' angle {7}. Again, no open letter from you.
Just six months ago, Medicine Hat saw the brutal killing of a family {8} that once again was spun by the media who focused on the Gothic and Vampire connection. The killers were active participants of the VampireFreaks.com website, which brought uncomfortable media commentary regarding online vampire-themed communities, in the same manner the Mathew Hardman case and that we face now in the wake of the Kimveer shooting.
Again, not a word from Michelle Belanger, determined activist for the improvement of public perception of the Gothic and Vampire communities.
Are we seriously to believe that you are so ignorant that you truly believed your claim on Coast to Coast that Columbine was the last act of fatal violence involving those labelled as Goths or Vampires, when hardly a month goes by without the various news feeds and papers publishing at least one article about such an incident?
Or should we come to the more sinister revelation that your 'sudden' desire to speak out despite having had a number of previous opportunities and the fact you have a book and CD release are simply mere co-incidence?
As sickening and vile as the conclusion that forms is, we must accept the simple fact that current events have provided you with opportunity after opportunity over the years for you to speak out on events that concern the community. You have repeatedly made the decision not to, despite your current claims that your sole motivation is to improve the perception of the Vampire community.
It seems plainly obvious that the real reason for your letter is that this is the first such incident in which you have seen a clear opportunity to promote yourself, reinforced by the fact that with mentions to your house, your books and the black veil your letter reads more like your biography than a description of the Vampire community.
Contrast your blatant advertising with Gothic author, musician and artist, Voltaire, when he spoke out on Fox News with regards the Scott Dyleski murder last year{9}. Fox mentioned his book to establish credentials and he manages to seemingly do the impossible, failing to mention his stage act, his Nu-wave band, his toys, books, CDs, comics, his stop motion work or the vampire house he associates with.
You have proven yourself to be an intelligent individual and a very capable writer, so we cannot be expected to allow you the excuse that perhaps you were unaware your letter would be interpreted in this manner. You have the intelligence and the talent to ensure that anything you say is deliberate and intentioned.
You are a member of 'Voices of the Vampire Community' (VVC), a group that brings together the heads of many vampire groups with sole intention of better promoting and benefiting the entire community. If you did want to speak out about the community, why ignore the platform offered by the VVC, when this was intended to be one of its stated main purposes, especially given you have already admitted to the VVC that you are not informed enough to speak out on behalf of the entire community:
"I want to be able to offer a fair representation of every one's opinions, not just my own.
...
I get asked by people to describe the community. I know HK, but I don't know everyone else here, unless there's communication. I'm more than willing to at least make an attempt to present everyone in an equal light." {10}So if promoting the unified community is your aim why do you fail to use the tools given to you in favour of promoting only yourself?
You make constant comment to your good nature and how determined you are to make a difference, that your intentions are good and you only
wish to benefit the community and others.If this is true, then why is it that being asked if you could you not use your contacts in a better fashion and 'exactly how much of the
profits will go to Katrina victims?' caused you to not only scrap your book project supposedly aimed at benefiting Katrina victims but to also privately attack those who asked the questions as the reason the project was scrapped?Proof positive that far from wanting to use tragic events to benefit others, you seek only to carry on the finest traditions of the
Sanguinarium and benefit yourself by ripping off others, expecting to be free from criticism or comment as you do so.With regret in my heart I must accept that in you, this community has a most self-serving, ignorant and despicable of characters. Your words spin an inspirational and noble dream, selling us with Utopian visions of tolerance, benevolence and good will. Yet beneath these paper thin lies lurks a creature apparently devoid of compassion and caring little of morality and other's personal tragedy.
I sincerely wish for you that the great efforts you go to in whoring the Gothic and Vampire communities to sell yourself and trade on your hollow words provide you with all the money, fame and peer recognition you clearly crave and believe you deserve.
And let the rest of us all hold onto the hope that this day comes soon, so that you may return whatever husk you leave us with back to those who truly care: the many community members out there who get their messages out without the need for self-promotion. They are the real credits to our respective communities.
With eternal optimism,
-V.
References
{1} Donation to Islamic Aid -
http://community.livejournal.com/psyvamps/47746.html?thread=244610
{2} Islamic Aid - http://www.islamicaid.org.uk/ourwork3.html
{3} http://groups.yahoo.com/group/housekheperu/message/7736 (requires
membership of group)
{4} Teens in massacre plot to have court hearing today - http://www.thetrenchcoat.com/categories/52-Winslow-Township/P2.html
{5} Teenager guilty of 'vampire' murder - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/2166683.stm
{6} http://groups.yahoo.com/group/housekheperu/message/11895 (requires
membership of group)
{7} Vitale slaying suspect charged with murder - http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/10/21/vitale.suspect/
{8} Girl, 12, charged with murdering family - http://www.religionnewsblog.com/14434/girl-12-charged-with-murdering-family
{9} Voltaire on Fox News - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5psCjK6tzQ
{10} Voices of the Vampire community discussion 1/28/06 - http://psychicvampire.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=43
The voice of wisdom, hailing from furtherdown.org just did the right thing and answered Michelle Belanger with an equally open letter i'd like to present here:
The following is a response to the open letter that Michelle Belanger issued in the wake of the recent 'Canadian Columbine' shooting that was emailed to her.
I wish to thank all those involved from the vampire comunity who provided support, encouragement, corrections and advice in helping to put this response together.
This was a joint effort and I could not have done it without you.
An open letter to Michelle Belanger
A person within our community trying to improve public perception and express their sympathies is to be heartily commended. Let us not be mistaken though, this was never your true intention behind your open letter.
At best it is nothing more than a display of staggering ignorance by someone who claims to not only hold the interests of the community dear to their heart, but who also pushes themselves as 'an authority' on the topic.
At worst this is self-promotion and opportunism in a most disgusting and vile manner.
You display unforgivable hypocrisy in your call for others to display tolerance and an open minded attitude towards this community, when your own intolerant hatred prevents you donating to an Islamic charity {1} working hard to correct the wrongs you accuse them of {2}.
The commentary on your journal spews forth with all manner of idealism about how in the wake of visible hate crimes after Columbine, you were convinced that if your letters were printed you could improve perceptions and convince the world we are not evil or malicious.
It is almost believable had you not already offered the rather more realistic opinion that the truth of the matter is that no words will shake those who commit hate crimes:
"They're not attacking necessarily out of a sense that you're different or more powerful or evil or anything like that -- they're attacking for the pure and simple fact that you're different.
...
9 times out of 10 these people could care less whether or not we're "real" vampires. They're just lashing out at something they don't understand -- something that's not like them" {3}
Yet now there is a sudden urgency to have your name and your thoughts printed and in the media. Why now, Michelle, when you've ignored countless such events in the past.
Where were you in 2002 when Mathew Hardman hit the news for having murdered a 90 year old pensioner {5}, removing her heart and drinking her blood to become a vampire after reading instructions on the Internet. An incident that not only went without a public letter from you, but even a discussion on this matter within the House Kheperu mailing list {6} failed to draw a single comment from you.
How about more recent events? October 2005, Scott Dyleski murdered his neighbor and was charged with first-degree murder, the media running with the 'troubled Goth' angle {7}. Again, no open letter from you.
Just six months ago, Medicine Hat saw the brutal killing of a family {8} that once again was spun by the media who focused on the Gothic and Vampire connection. The killers were active participants of the VampireFreaks.com website, which brought uncomfortable media commentary regarding online vampire-themed communities, in the same manner the Mathew Hardman case and that we face now in the wake of the Kimveer shooting.
Again, not a word from Michelle Belanger, determined activist for the improvement of public perception of the Gothic and Vampire communities.
Are we seriously to believe that you are so ignorant that you truly believed your claim on Coast to Coast that Columbine was the last act of fatal violence involving those labelled as Goths or Vampires, when hardly a month goes by without the various news feeds and papers publishing at least one article about such an incident?
Or should we come to the more sinister revelation that your 'sudden' desire to speak out despite having had a number of previous opportunities and the fact you have a book and CD release are simply mere co-incidence?
As sickening and vile as the conclusion that forms is, we must accept the simple fact that current events have provided you with opportunity after opportunity over the years for you to speak out on events that concern the community. You have repeatedly made the decision not to, despite your current claims that your sole motivation is to improve the perception of the Vampire community.
It seems plainly obvious that the real reason for your letter is that this is the first such incident in which you have seen a clear opportunity to promote yourself, reinforced by the fact that with mentions to your house, your books and the black veil your letter reads more like your biography than a description of the Vampire community.
Contrast your blatant advertising with Gothic author, musician and artist, Voltaire, when he spoke out on Fox News with regards the Scott Dyleski murder last year{9}. Fox mentioned his book to establish credentials and he manages to seemingly do the impossible, failing to mention his stage act, his Nu-wave band, his toys, books, CDs, comics, his stop motion work or the vampire house he associates with.
You have proven yourself to be an intelligent individual and a very capable writer, so we cannot be expected to allow you the excuse that perhaps you were unaware your letter would be interpreted in this manner. You have the intelligence and the talent to ensure that anything you say is deliberate and intentioned.
You are a member of 'Voices of the Vampire Community' (VVC), a group that brings together the heads of many vampire groups with sole intention of better promoting and benefiting the entire community. If you did want to speak out about the community, why ignore the platform offered by the VVC, when this was intended to be one of its stated main purposes, especially given you have already admitted to the VVC that you are not informed enough to speak out on behalf of the entire community:
"I want to be able to offer a fair representation of every one's opinions, not just my own.
...
I get asked by people to describe the community. I know HK, but I don't know everyone else here, unless there's communication. I'm more than willing to at least make an attempt to present everyone in an equal light." {10}
So if promoting the unified community is your aim why do you fail to use the tools given to you in favour of promoting only yourself?
You make constant comment to your good nature and how determined you are to make a difference, that your intentions are good and you only
wish to benefit the community and others.
If this is true, then why is it that being asked if you could you not use your contacts in a better fashion and 'exactly how much of the
profits will go to Katrina victims?' caused you to not only scrap your book project supposedly aimed at benefiting Katrina victims but to also privately attack those who asked the questions as the reason the project was scrapped?
Proof positive that far from wanting to use tragic events to benefit others, you seek only to carry on the finest traditions of the
Sanguinarium and benefit yourself by ripping off others, expecting to be free from criticism or comment as you do so.
With regret in my heart I must accept that in you, this community has a most self-serving, ignorant and despicable of characters. Your words spin an inspirational and noble dream, selling us with Utopian visions of tolerance, benevolence and good will. Yet beneath these paper thin lies lurks a creature apparently devoid of compassion and caring little of morality and other's personal tragedy.
I sincerely wish for you that the great efforts you go to in whoring the Gothic and Vampire communities to sell yourself and trade on your hollow words provide you with all the money, fame and peer recognition you clearly crave and believe you deserve.
And let the rest of us all hold onto the hope that this day comes soon, so that you may return whatever husk you leave us with back to those who truly care: the many community members out there who get their messages out without the need for self-promotion. They are the real credits to our respective communities.
With eternal optimism,
-V.
References
{1} Donation to Islamic Aid -
http://community.livejournal.com/psyvamps/47746.html?thread=244610
{2} Islamic Aid - http://www.islamicaid.org.uk/ourwork3.html
{3} http://groups.yahoo.com/group/housekheperu/message/7736 (requires
membership of group)
{4} Teens in massacre plot to have court hearing today - http://www.thetrenchcoat.com/categories/52-Winslow-Township/P2.html
{5} Teenager guilty of 'vampire' murder - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/2166683.stm
{6} http://groups.yahoo.com/group/housekheperu/message/11895 (requires
membership of group)
{7} Vitale slaying suspect charged with murder - http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/10/21/vitale.suspect/
{8} Girl, 12, charged with murdering family - http://www.religionnewsblog.com/14434/girl-12-charged-with-murdering-family
{9} Voltaire on Fox News - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5psCjK6tzQ
{10} Voices of the Vampire community discussion 1/28/06 - http://psychicvampire.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=43
Zitat von necromancerza am 5 Oktober, 2006, 1347 UhrMichelle Belanger .. How did you get your foot in your mouth?
Funny enough, that`s the first thing I saw when reading his open letter.... Shameless self promotion. Would have made more of an impact being and anonomous letter imo.
But I guess he thought that throwing cridentials around he might give more authotory to his words.Nice one Vorsuc :whip:
ps. this is the most reading on the web I have ever done ... but well worth it 😈
Michelle Belanger .. How did you get your foot in your mouth?
Funny enough, that`s the first thing I saw when reading his open letter.... Shameless self promotion. Would have made more of an impact being and anonomous letter imo.
But I guess he thought that throwing cridentials around he might give more authotory to his words.
Nice one Vorsuc :whip:
ps. this is the most reading on the web I have ever done ... but well worth it 😈
Zitat von insidedistuo am 5 Oktober, 2006, 1856 UhrWhat an educated and thoughtful response to the letter... clear and concice.....
kudos to V......
IO
What an educated and thoughtful response to the letter... clear and concice.....
kudos to V......
IO
Zitat von maestro am 5 Oktober, 2006, 2134 Uhr@necromancerza wrote:
Funny enough, that`s the first thing I saw when reading his open letter.... Shameless self promotion. Would have made more of an impact being and anonomous letter imo.
But I guess he thought that throwing cridentials around he might give more authotory to his words.ooooo nothing of the sort. What M chopped off was this was the email as it was as I sent her. It has been reproduced in a couple of places, but we tacked on a part about how this wasn't JUST my work and that a number of other vamps (some of them respected long time members of the community) helped and supported me in writing the letter. (we also removed the eternal optimism bit and my sig)
Perhaps should tack that onto the copy I slapped on FD to make that clear.
But thanks to M for sharing it here and glad you guys got a kick out of it.
@necromancerza wrote:
Funny enough, that`s the first thing I saw when reading his open letter.... Shameless self promotion. Would have made more of an impact being and anonomous letter imo.
But I guess he thought that throwing cridentials around he might give more authotory to his words.
ooooo nothing of the sort. What M chopped off was this was the email as it was as I sent her. It has been reproduced in a couple of places, but we tacked on a part about how this wasn't JUST my work and that a number of other vamps (some of them respected long time members of the community) helped and supported me in writing the letter. (we also removed the eternal optimism bit and my sig)
Perhaps should tack that onto the copy I slapped on FD to make that clear.
But thanks to M for sharing it here and glad you guys got a kick out of it.
Zitat von maestro am 5 Oktober, 2006, 2140 UhrI thought Nec just mixed up Michelle's gender, never saw it from that perspective sorry!
Of course the quotation is just the italic text, the intro is by me, as with any text i quote here 🙄Edited it to show the full text now
I thought Nec just mixed up Michelle's gender, never saw it from that perspective sorry!
Of course the quotation is just the italic text, the intro is by me, as with any text i quote here 🙄
Edited it to show the full text now
Zitat von maestro am 6 Oktober, 2006, 0853 Uhrsee I wondered what the hell you were talking about... now I see how your saw it too...
I think comrade Necro should be called to trial to explain themselves 😉
see I wondered what the hell you were talking about... now I see how your saw it too...
I think comrade Necro should be called to trial to explain themselves 😉
Zitat von necromancerza am 6 Oktober, 2006, 1140 UhrThanks guys .. I just got my 6pack back from laughing.
I think comrade Necro should be called to trial to explain themselves
Anything to get a VTK - FD chatroom brawl on the go.
---> deviating from the subject ... which chatroom can support more people at any give time?
I`d like to arrange a get together of sorts.
Thanks guys .. I just got my 6pack back from laughing.
I think comrade Necro should be called to trial to explain themselves
Anything to get a VTK - FD chatroom brawl on the go.
---> deviating from the subject ... which chatroom can support more people at any give time?
I`d like to arrange a get together of sorts.
Zitat von maestro am 6 Oktober, 2006, 1241 UhrYou REALLY want to see Maestro in his tight spandex facing off in the squared ring against me... also in my tight spandex?
Jesus Necro, seek help 😉
You REALLY want to see Maestro in his tight spandex facing off in the squared ring against me... also in my tight spandex?
Jesus Necro, seek help 😉
Zitat von necromancerza am 7 Oktober, 2006, 0601 Uhr^^
^^
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