Handing email over to google
Zitat von maestro am 13 Juni, 2008, 1110 UhrThis one is really important, so i need Your input:
We have about 1400 registered email accounts @vampyres.tk. We have no idea how much are used, but chances are that some are used as primary email account. For paypal and other important stuff.
At the moment, our email services are provided by everyone.net - they run the mailserver and therefore get to place ads on the webmail-only email interface. The ads are annoying as fuck - popups and skyscraper banners/wierd flash "shoot the monkey"-stuff. But people have their emails stored there.
Google now offers to run our email stuff, too. It'd be the very same webmail interface as googlemail , with only one text line of advertising and it supports pop3/imap (Outlook/Thunderbird support)
Where everyone.net offered 25 megs (which they now raised to 1 gig of storage), google offers 7 gigs of storage for each account. Rising as G updates it's data centers.
If we sent out a mass email to all freemail inboxes stating that we'd change the system from vtk.mail.everyone.net to vtk.mail.google.com a month in advance, everyone who actually uses his account should be able to switch to the new system in time. Their old email will still be accessible under vtk.mail.everyone.net, but the new email system for sending and getting email will be at vtk.mail.google.com
Besides the obvious technical choice we also have to think about another thing:
Migrating users might not be that easy. In fact, since everyone.net runs the show, we only have their nicknames, first and last names. People signing up to email accounts aren't necessarily the same people who signed up to the website accounts.
We don't have their passwords.Google offers a bulk account setup feature where you load up an Excel sheet that includes the nicknames, first names, last names and passwords of 2000 users and 2000 accounts will be created with that info. Seeing that we don't know their passwords, what we could do is
- Give them all the same password - everyone hopefully logs into his account on the new system and only changes his password and proceeds to use the new system. We could state that these "passwords" are randomly generated though it's always the same. Downside: People could notice it's always the same and take over other accounts
- Set up the Frist Names they used in the current system also as passwords in the new system. That way they'd have to login to the old system to retrieve what first name they used there to supply it as password on the new system on the first login (on the other hand they ARE logged in to the old system at the time they read about the change in the mass email). Downside: everyone they sent an email to knows their password (but probably doesn't know that we changed the systems since the update mass mail with detailed instructions only goes out to the @vampyres.tk email inboxes only.
Of course we'd set it so that they have to change their passwords after the first login.
But are poeple really to be trusted to follow a set of pictured instructions without fucking up somewhere? And is the change of systems really worth it? I myself would prefer to use Thunderbird with webmail as an extra, but how does the rest of the world see it?
Discuss please.
This one is really important, so i need Your input:
We have about 1400 registered email accounts @vampyres.tk. We have no idea how much are used, but chances are that some are used as primary email account. For paypal and other important stuff.
At the moment, our email services are provided by everyone.net - they run the mailserver and therefore get to place ads on the webmail-only email interface. The ads are annoying as fuck - popups and skyscraper banners/wierd flash "shoot the monkey"-stuff. But people have their emails stored there.
Google now offers to run our email stuff, too. It'd be the very same webmail interface as googlemail , with only one text line of advertising and it supports pop3/imap (Outlook/Thunderbird support)
Where everyone.net offered 25 megs (which they now raised to 1 gig of storage), google offers 7 gigs of storage for each account. Rising as G updates it's data centers.
If we sent out a mass email to all freemail inboxes stating that we'd change the system from vtk.mail.everyone.net to vtk.mail.google.com a month in advance, everyone who actually uses his account should be able to switch to the new system in time. Their old email will still be accessible under vtk.mail.everyone.net, but the new email system for sending and getting email will be at vtk.mail.google.com
Besides the obvious technical choice we also have to think about another thing:
Migrating users might not be that easy. In fact, since everyone.net runs the show, we only have their nicknames, first and last names. People signing up to email accounts aren't necessarily the same people who signed up to the website accounts.
We don't have their passwords.
Google offers a bulk account setup feature where you load up an Excel sheet that includes the nicknames, first names, last names and passwords of 2000 users and 2000 accounts will be created with that info. Seeing that we don't know their passwords, what we could do is
- Give them all the same password - everyone hopefully logs into his account on the new system and only changes his password and proceeds to use the new system. We could state that these "passwords" are randomly generated though it's always the same. Downside: People could notice it's always the same and take over other accounts
- Set up the Frist Names they used in the current system also as passwords in the new system. That way they'd have to login to the old system to retrieve what first name they used there to supply it as password on the new system on the first login (on the other hand they ARE logged in to the old system at the time they read about the change in the mass email). Downside: everyone they sent an email to knows their password (but probably doesn't know that we changed the systems since the update mass mail with detailed instructions only goes out to the @vampyres.tk email inboxes only.
Of course we'd set it so that they have to change their passwords after the first login.
But are poeple really to be trusted to follow a set of pictured instructions without fucking up somewhere? And is the change of systems really worth it? I myself would prefer to use Thunderbird with webmail as an extra, but how does the rest of the world see it?
Discuss please.
Zitat von maestro am 15 Juni, 2008, 1600 UhrI don't use my VTK mail much, so my voice is hardly influencial, but can't see a problem, I mean google's a bigger more trusted name and their email... well it fuckin' rocks.
Regarding the sheet, the only way I think you can go as a responsible admin, is generate a whole bunch of random passwords. Yeah, I know a pain in the fucking arse to send out all those customised emails (I'm sure a man of your talents can stick the details in a database and run some email program against it doing a mail merge or some shit)... using the same password and even the firstname runs the risk of someone being able to guess a user's password and take over the account. If these emails are being used for paypal as you suspect, that's a massive liability that I'm sure you'll want to protect yourself from.
I don't use my VTK mail much, so my voice is hardly influencial, but can't see a problem, I mean google's a bigger more trusted name and their email... well it fuckin' rocks.
Regarding the sheet, the only way I think you can go as a responsible admin, is generate a whole bunch of random passwords. Yeah, I know a pain in the fucking arse to send out all those customised emails (I'm sure a man of your talents can stick the details in a database and run some email program against it doing a mail merge or some shit)... using the same password and even the firstname runs the risk of someone being able to guess a user's password and take over the account. If these emails are being used for paypal as you suspect, that's a massive liability that I'm sure you'll want to protect yourself from.
Zitat von necromancerza am 16 Juni, 2008, 1613 UhrSorry M totally missed this post the first time.
I still cant get into my VTK account, but there is probably some info sent there that I would not want anyone to got hold of, and it seems we leave ourselves open if we are to bulk password all the account. This could have legal complications as Vorsuc suggests.
Could everyone.net cull the dormant mail accounts upon request? Then atleast we might know the numbers we are working with.
Sorry M totally missed this post the first time.
I still cant get into my VTK account, but there is probably some info sent there that I would not want anyone to got hold of, and it seems we leave ourselves open if we are to bulk password all the account. This could have legal complications as Vorsuc suggests.
Could everyone.net cull the dormant mail accounts upon request? Then atleast we might know the numbers we are working with.
Zitat von maestro am 29 Juni, 2008, 0917 UhrThey could probably do that, but my ego runs better on 1400+ accounts that i'm working for than the 2 that might get used
Rumour has it that everyone.net gives out a list of usernames and passwords for $50.
That's $50 more than i would pay for it, but since it's about the only secure form of migration that doesn't get people even remotely exposed to fraud i think that's the way to go.They'd still have their old email on the old system (vtk.mail.everyone.net) , since email doesnt get migrated. But they can login there and look for it if they miss it. New email goes to the new system at mail.vampyres.tk. We can make a statement on the old system like these guys did and people know what's up.
Thinking about it, just for beeing able to use my account with POP and 7 gigs quota i'd shell out a few bucks a year..
They could probably do that, but my ego runs better on 1400+ accounts that i'm working for than the 2 that might get used
Rumour has it that everyone.net gives out a list of usernames and passwords for $50.
That's $50 more than i would pay for it, but since it's about the only secure form of migration that doesn't get people even remotely exposed to fraud i think that's the way to go.
They'd still have their old email on the old system (vtk.mail.everyone.net) , since email doesnt get migrated. But they can login there and look for it if they miss it. New email goes to the new system at mail.vampyres.tk. We can make a statement on the old system like these guys did and people know what's up.
Thinking about it, just for beeing able to use my account with POP and 7 gigs quota i'd shell out a few bucks a year..
Zitat von necromancerza am 29 Juni, 2008, 1206 UhrThat seems to be the correct way of doing it.
Copy source ... find bigassass.com .. replace Vampyres.tk 😀 .. mod dates.Sidetrack .. I thought this ws funny ...
Jun 14, 2007
As most of you know, I've been looking to move bigassass.com to another web email provider. Everyone.net has been such a pain to work with and the fact they keep adding more and more flashy ads has made the service really annoying to use.
and then a "Powered by everyone.net" add at the bottom of the page.
That seems to be the correct way of doing it.
Copy source ... find bigassass.com .. replace Vampyres.tk 😀 .. mod dates.
Sidetrack .. I thought this ws funny ...
Jun 14, 2007
As most of you know, I've been looking to move bigassass.com to another web email provider. Everyone.net has been such a pain to work with and the fact they keep adding more and more flashy ads has made the service really annoying to use.
and then a "Powered by everyone.net" add at the bottom of the page.
Zitat von maestro am 29 Juni, 2008, 1840 Uhrhehehe!
Well, it's a good thing they don't seem to take criticism too hard. That way we can announce our migration efforts as broadly as possible and still have them keep the old email for us. I thougt the moment we'd state we jump to google they'd cut our line.
Anyway, since i recently found out the only text-line of news/ads in the gmail interface can be switched off by users i really prefer gmail a ton over everyone.net's obnoxious popup and flash banners. Of course there is no sense in asking for paypal contributions from users for the migration fee, but i think they'll at least not whine about their old email beeing at another place that much.
hehehe!
Well, it's a good thing they don't seem to take criticism too hard. That way we can announce our migration efforts as broadly as possible and still have them keep the old email for us. I thougt the moment we'd state we jump to google they'd cut our line.
Anyway, since i recently found out the only text-line of news/ads in the gmail interface can be switched off by users i really prefer gmail a ton over everyone.net's obnoxious popup and flash banners. Of course there is no sense in asking for paypal contributions from users for the migration fee, but i think they'll at least not whine about their old email beeing at another place that much.
Zitat von maestro am 11 Juli, 2008, 1430 UhrOk, shutting down adblock+ i see some adwords ads, but they're hardly annoying.
Besides free email, which is now technically implemented at mail.vampyres.tk there is also
- search.vampyres.tk - your custom purple google
- calendar.vampyres.tk - VTK-wide shared and personal calendars that can be combined with party calendar layers
- docs.vampyres.tk (optional) - shared office space, something we don't exactly need
- sites.vampyres.tk (optional) - user editable websites, but i want that to happen on VTK ressources
I don't have the money this month, so migration has to wait.
On the other side, besides the dull google layout i don't see a sign up button - am i forced to manually add every user?
Ok, shutting down adblock+ i see some adwords ads, but they're hardly annoying.
Besides free email, which is now technically implemented at mail.vampyres.tk there is also
- search.vampyres.tk - your custom purple google
- calendar.vampyres.tk - VTK-wide shared and personal calendars that can be combined with party calendar layers
- docs.vampyres.tk (optional) - shared office space, something we don't exactly need
- sites.vampyres.tk (optional) - user editable websites, but i want that to happen on VTK ressources
I don't have the money this month, so migration has to wait.
On the other side, besides the dull google layout i don't see a sign up button - am i forced to manually add every user?
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